“Paradise Lost” is supposed one of the greatest poems written; at least that’s what I keep hearing. I feel like I am hearing more and more references to this poem. But why is it considered so great? It is the language that is used? I don’t know if I would call the language great, I can barely understand it even with the help of a teacher. I even read an excerpt last year and still couldn’t understand this re-reading of it. I know that many great poems/literature is not direct, but I feel that “Paradise Lost” is downright confusing. Is it the topic of the poem that makes it so wonderful? I still can’t say for sure what the topic is, but from what I understand it’s about a battle in heaven between the angels. Was this a revolutionary topic for Milton’s time? I just don’t understand why there’s all this hoopla about this particular poem. Can someone help me out? - adi-c Feb 27, 2008
From what I gather from people who know it better than I, Paradise Lost is all about Satan trying to corrupt mankind. I think it would be interesting to see how Milton thinks Satan is corrupting the world. It would make for a fascinating story. It has violence between angels, who wouldn't be at least curious? The topic itself seems to be very entertaining, so that is how it got to be so popular, besides it being masterfully written, of course. But I am with you, adi, that it is all mass confusion to me. When Br. Tom read it to use it class it completely went right over my head, and it is still flying up there, waiting for my education or analyzation skills to catch up with it. - kkr-c Feb 27, 2008
To be honest, I have not had very much experience with this poem at all. I mean, of course I've heard a lot of talk about it, but I never read any parts of it other than for this class. Going with your idea, kkr, I think it's safe to say that your assumptions are correct. I don't know if I can be of much help in answering your question, adi, so I went to the source, well ours at least, our green poetry book. If you look on page 107 and 108, you can pick up bits and pieces of the excerpt and apply it to the theory that it was written about Satan, good vs. evil, that kind of thing. There is mention of Babylon, and the first thing that came to my mind was of the Bible. The following quotes at the bottom of 107 and very top of 108 stands out to me going along with this idea. "The hasty multitude Admiring entered, and the work some praise And some the architect: his hand was known In Heav'n by many a towered structure high, Where sceptred angels held their residence, and sat as princes, whom the Supreme King Exalted to such power, and gave to rule." From what I gather, Mulciber is someone sent down to earth to challenge Satan, or just evil in general. He is described almost as a gift, because he is given such importance to us in this poem. Which brings me to the question, what religion did Milton believe in? Anyway, the whole beginning of this excerpt is describing how the earth looks as he's I suppose coming from the sky, maybe that's the source of the confusion. It almost seems backwards to us, the order of which the information in this passage is revealed. Take another look and I'm sure you can come up with more thoughts on this poem now. Oh, and in addition to that, I just want to say that I like his writing style, even though it's complex. He seems to have a natural grasp of language, the way he puts these beautiful words together from his obviously vast vocabulary and string them together so they fit so nicely. He has this way of going on and on, and yet, it's not redundant or boring in the least; he elaborates well. With you adi and kkr, it might be nice to understand it myself a little bit more, but I think we can do it, maybe with a little help and a lot of rereading. - AGe-c Feb 27, 2008
This post is in reply to what AGe said about Mulciber. When I read the passage, I got the impression that Mulciber was bad; it says that the architect of the beautiful temple was known as Mulciber, and "fell from Heav'n...thrown by angry Jove/Sheer o'er the crystal battlements." It also says that he used to live in heaven with angels, princes, and the "Supreme King," so my guess is that he somehow made the King/Jove/God mad which resulted in his banishment from heaven. What also makes me think that Mulciber is bad is by the temple he is building; Milton spends a great deal describing the temple in all of its wonder and majesty, but it also gives the impression of being sacraligious because Mulciber is building such a heavenly place on sin-filled Earth--it's like he is trying to compete with the heavens. ALso, it is compared to the evil Tower of Babylon which God ended up destroying because its purpose was to reach the heavens. - lma-c Feb 28, 2008
What I get from this poem is that Mulciber, an angel thrown out of heaven, is creating his kingdom on earth. Actually, LMa, I think that when he says "supreme king" Milton is referring to Mulciber because he was the leader of this kingdom on earth. To me it seems like Mulciber is the precursor to Satan, making earth his realm and trying to corrupt man as KKr said. The weird thing though is that if Milton didn't say that Mulciber was thrown out of heaven by Jove, he comes off in a pretty good light. It talks about how he gave rule to his grand kingdom and how "nor was his name unheard or unadored." His name was adored. I guess that this is showing the corruptness of man to adore a fallen angel. And what was the reason for this adoration? His grand structure that gave shame to all other kingdoms on earth? How vain. - LDo-c Feb 28, 2008
Ok, well I'm with adi and kkr, in that it might as well be written in Greek, for all that I understand in it. So, good old wikipedia came to my rescue, and I mixed it with what I already heard about the poem. From what I know, it is about the fall of Satan and then the temptation of Adam and Eve and how they got the boot from the Garden of Eden (hence, Paradise Lost). In response to AGe, Milton was Christian, I believe. Though he did incorporate Pagan ideas and some classical Greek, according to wikipedia. - mmi-c Feb 28, 2008
I am in shock that I was able to discuss a mythology post before JHe beat me to it. Mulciber is an alternative name for Vulcan, the Roman god of fire and metallurgy. If I remember Paradise Lost (the description, I have never read it in full), the Roman gods were fused with Christianity. These "gods" were really fallen angels who, like Satan, get involved with humans and harm their lives. So no, Mulciber is not exactly a "good guy," and I believe that the city he is building, if this is Book 1, is a city in Hell. But Mulciber was adored by the Romans for his skill as a smith nonetheless. As for Milton's religious faith, the back of the book says he worked under Oliver Cromwell. More than likely, he is a Calvinist Puritan who believes in predestination and the rest of the Puritan creed.
Finally, how could there not be hoopla about this poem? First of all, this poem is hard to read, and many people automatically assume that literature must be hard to be good, and vice versa. But the story itself is also very exciting. Not only is it about an inter-angel war, it ties several religions together in a way nobody else had thought of before. The pagan gods were fallen angels. Many of the other angels present in Islam and elsewhere are brought into this novel. And even though this is an Old Testament story, Christianity is incorporated. Within this poem, the Son of Man vows to sacrifice himself for the good of mankind, years before the historical Jesus came to be. It also personifies Adam and Eve. From what I understand, they are a 17th century Ralph and Alice (or Ross and Rachel if you are so uncultured as to have never watched The Honeymooners). But even beyond the story, it just sounds good. I don't think that this is a particularly poetic passage myself, but it does have its moments. "Anon out of the eart a fabric huge/ Rose like an exhaltation..." That's just poetic - TRu-c Feb 28, 2008
TRu pretty much took everything there is to say about this =/. Anyways, Mulciber is kind of like an architect and the place it describes him building in this passage is the city for Satan in Hell. Consequently, Mulciber is not a good guy. Also, Milton was a Protestant. For more information, Wikipedia has a pretty good section on his beliefs.
I think this poem is so popular for a few reasons. Mainly, it is so well written that people are just drawn to it. The language probably has a lot to do with it adi. Like others have stated, his easy grasp on the English language allows him to weave such an intricate story without giving up and poetic value. It's beautiful. Secondly, it is controversial. It is talking about the angels revolting. That is pure literary gold. I'm sure many authors today wish they got their hands on the subject matter first. Finally, it is an engaging story. If you really try to read it the story starts to suck you in, even if you can't understand half the lines. I think this poem definitely deserves all the hype. - PMi-c Mar 3, 2008
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From what I gather from people who know it better than I, Paradise Lost is all about Satan trying to corrupt mankind. I think it would be interesting to see how Milton thinks Satan is corrupting the world. It would make for a fascinating story. It has violence between angels, who wouldn't be at least curious? The topic itself seems to be very entertaining, so that is how it got to be so popular, besides it being masterfully written, of course. But I am with you, adi, that it is all mass confusion to me. When Br. Tom read it to use it class it completely went right over my head, and it is still flying up there, waiting for my education or analyzation skills to catch up with it.
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To be honest, I have not had very much experience with this poem at all. I mean, of course I've heard a lot of talk about it, but I never read any parts of it other than for this class. Going with your idea, kkr, I think it's safe to say that your assumptions are correct. I don't know if I can be of much help in answering your question, adi, so I went to the source, well ours at least, our green poetry book. If you look on page 107 and 108, you can pick up bits and pieces of the excerpt and apply it to the theory that it was written about Satan, good vs. evil, that kind of thing. There is mention of Babylon, and the first thing that came to my mind was of the Bible. The following quotes at the bottom of 107 and very top of 108 stands out to me going along with this idea. "The hasty multitude Admiring entered, and the work some praise And some the architect: his hand was known In Heav'n by many a towered structure high, Where sceptred angels held their residence, and sat as princes, whom the Supreme King Exalted to such power, and gave to rule." From what I gather, Mulciber is someone sent down to earth to challenge Satan, or just evil in general. He is described almost as a gift, because he is given such importance to us in this poem. Which brings me to the question, what religion did Milton believe in? Anyway, the whole beginning of this excerpt is describing how the earth looks as he's I suppose coming from the sky, maybe that's the source of the confusion. It almost seems backwards to us, the order of which the information in this passage is revealed. Take another look and I'm sure you can come up with more thoughts on this poem now. Oh, and in addition to that, I just want to say that I like his writing style, even though it's complex. He seems to have a natural grasp of language, the way he puts these beautiful words together from his obviously vast vocabulary and string them together so they fit so nicely. He has this way of going on and on, and yet, it's not redundant or boring in the least; he elaborates well. With you adi and kkr, it might be nice to understand it myself a little bit more, but I think we can do it, maybe with a little help and a lot of rereading. -
This post is in reply to what AGe said about Mulciber. When I read the passage, I got the impression that Mulciber was bad; it says that the architect of the beautiful temple was known as Mulciber, and "fell from Heav'n...thrown by angry Jove/Sheer o'er the crystal battlements." It also says that he used to live in heaven with angels, princes, and the "Supreme King," so my guess is that he somehow made the King/Jove/God mad which resulted in his banishment from heaven. What also makes me think that Mulciber is bad is by the temple he is building; Milton spends a great deal describing the temple in all of its wonder and majesty, but it also gives the impression of being sacraligious because Mulciber is building such a heavenly place on sin-filled Earth--it's like he is trying to compete with the heavens. ALso, it is compared to the evil Tower of Babylon which God ended up destroying because its purpose was to reach the heavens. -
What I get from this poem is that Mulciber, an angel thrown out of heaven, is creating his kingdom on earth. Actually, LMa, I think that when he says "supreme king" Milton is referring to Mulciber because he was the leader of this kingdom on earth. To me it seems like Mulciber is the precursor to Satan, making earth his realm and trying to corrupt man as KKr said. The weird thing though is that if Milton didn't say that Mulciber was thrown out of heaven by Jove, he comes off in a pretty good light. It talks about how he gave rule to his grand kingdom and how "nor was his name unheard or unadored." His name was adored. I guess that this is showing the corruptness of man to adore a fallen angel. And what was the reason for this adoration? His grand structure that gave shame to all other kingdoms on earth? How vain.
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Ok, well I'm with adi and kkr, in that it might as well be written in Greek, for all that I understand in it. So, good old wikipedia came to my rescue, and I mixed it with what I already heard about the poem. From what I know, it is about the fall of Satan and then the temptation of Adam and Eve and how they got the boot from the Garden of Eden (hence, Paradise Lost). In response to AGe, Milton was Christian, I believe. Though he did incorporate Pagan ideas and some classical Greek, according to wikipedia. -
I am in shock that I was able to discuss a mythology post before JHe beat me to it. Mulciber is an alternative name for Vulcan, the Roman god of fire and metallurgy. If I remember Paradise Lost (the description, I have never read it in full), the Roman gods were fused with Christianity. These "gods" were really fallen angels who, like Satan, get involved with humans and harm their lives. So no, Mulciber is not exactly a "good guy," and I believe that the city he is building, if this is Book 1, is a city in Hell. But Mulciber was adored by the Romans for his skill as a smith nonetheless. As for Milton's religious faith, the back of the book says he worked under Oliver Cromwell. More than likely, he is a Calvinist Puritan who believes in predestination and the rest of the Puritan creed.
Finally, how could there not be hoopla about this poem? First of all, this poem is hard to read, and many people automatically assume that literature must be hard to be good, and vice versa. But the story itself is also very exciting. Not only is it about an inter-angel war, it ties several religions together in a way nobody else had thought of before. The pagan gods were fallen angels. Many of the other angels present in Islam and elsewhere are brought into this novel. And even though this is an Old Testament story, Christianity is incorporated. Within this poem, the Son of Man vows to sacrifice himself for the good of mankind, years before the historical Jesus came to be. It also personifies Adam and Eve. From what I understand, they are a 17th century Ralph and Alice (or Ross and Rachel if you are so uncultured as to have never watched The Honeymooners). But even beyond the story, it just sounds good. I don't think that this is a particularly poetic passage myself, but it does have its moments. "Anon out of the eart a fabric huge/ Rose like an exhaltation..." That's just poetic -
TRu pretty much took everything there is to say about this =/. Anyways, Mulciber is kind of like an architect and the place it describes him building in this passage is the city for Satan in Hell. Consequently, Mulciber is not a good guy. Also, Milton was a Protestant. For more information, Wikipedia has a pretty good section on his beliefs.
I think this poem is so popular for a few reasons. Mainly, it is so well written that people are just drawn to it. The language probably has a lot to do with it adi. Like others have stated, his easy grasp on the English language allows him to weave such an intricate story without giving up and poetic value. It's beautiful. Secondly, it is controversial. It is talking about the angels revolting. That is pure literary gold. I'm sure many authors today wish they got their hands on the subject matter first. Finally, it is an engaging story. If you really try to read it the story starts to suck you in, even if you can't understand half the lines. I think this poem definitely deserves all the hype. -